I went no contact with my mother after she slapped me across the face for the last time when I was 53 - i didn’t see her again until a few months before her death after she had experienced a stroke - which must have excised something in her brain- and at the end she was definitely not the same person - I definitely believe that the stroke relieved her of whatever caused her BPD/NPD behaviors and I was able to come to peace (though still healing the chronic trauma response patterns) with her passing
My normally hotheaded father turned into a kitten after his last stroke, and the last month before he died, we held hands, gazed into each other’s eyes, and (in my perception) healed old wounds.
I had two in my life -- my dad, and the one who was exactly like my dad. As you said, hand in glove patterns. This piece is excellent, I'm saving it, and would only add something about manipulation. Those with NPD have powers of insight formed by -- and resulting in -- an incredible ability to become master manipulators.
My divorce lawyer looked me straight in the eye and calmly stated this truth: "You continue to be surprised by behavior that is remarkably consistent."
Perhaps that's where the 'healing fantasy' comes from. . . and fantasy it is. There is no changing them and they will never see you as a person. Walk away and don't look back if you can. Mine is 105 (almost) and I can't either, though I have with the others that I was in relationship with because, as you say, I spoke the language. Yet. . . here we are. Trying our best~~still.
Thank you, so validating. My 85 yr old father (yep, narcissist) now also has dementia, so is becoming someone new but underneath it remains all about him. I had no contact for 30 years but now his third wife has just divorced him, though I’ve had many many invitations to step in and manage his life I will not. None of this is easy.
I utterly agree: no contact. And there's the exercise right there, and the learning, yes? How do I keep no contact, how do I focus on my own peace of mind, how do I care for myself, protect myself, hold on to my life without the chaos and the pull to partake in a mad world... inner peace and a wholesome groundedness in self must be learned and practiced, over and over again. Boundaries are hard. The benefits, if we can accept them, are plentiful.
Once you really believe someone is a narcissist, they become small and pitiable no matter how much they rage. They are hollow and repetitive. The periods of seeming peace devolve into the same exact version of seeing what is wrong with them in you. The lying is constant and off the charts. My experience is that they can attach to you in a futile attempt to become more whole; I do think some intuit what a whole self could look like, and wish for it (without consciously admitting anything is wrong.) In this scenario, they can be the most perceptive, sensitive person you have ever met. Sadly for everyone involved, that doesn't last. There is a piece missing. Who can say why? It's not straightforward.
Indeed, it is not. It’s not been my experience that narcissists are particularly sensitive, although they are without question perceptive, which works to their advantage. If there is sensitivity, it results in their being acutely attuned to the Achilles heels of those on the receiving end of their narcissism. As I write this, I don’t know if this is sensitivity or perceptiveness, or if there is a gray area and it’s a little of both. All I know is that every narcissist I’ve known—clinically diagnosed—has been a master at getting what he or she needs to fill their bucket, and if they don’t, things get very dangerous personally, professionally, and in every other way.
some small but critical part of their soul is missing. I've looked at my mother for decades and seen that she is an assemblage of out of control emotions and then pasted on human behaviors - as though an alien or robot watched some 1920s-30s movies and ingested histrionics and theatrics and occasionally pastes them onto their surface. My Narc isn't a full and real human being *to herself*.
This rings so true. I remember when, in the first grade, I came home and my mother took me aside and said, in a voice and with gestures and facial expressions that made me think she’d been practicing them after watching it in a movie, that all my friends were laughing at me and that she was the only person I could trust because she was my mother and loved me. The weirdness of the fake “act” was striking, even to me at the age of 7 or 8. It was what made me realize I could never trust her again, the exact opposite of her message.
Once your eyes are opened to clinically certifiable narcissism, everything becomes clear. I finally, five years post-divorce, see all the patterns. I don’t react anymore. (The barrages still unsettle me and give me insomnia, but he doesn’t know this.) I recognized just last week the play that was coming, and fortified myself. (To my mom, I said something like, This is play number #17, blame, shame, disparage, and assassinate character when child support is requested. Then switch to DARVO—deny, accuse, reverse victim and offender.) Strings of emails befoul my inbox after every reasonable request for legally stipulated support. It’s exhausting.
The one thing I’m grateful for is that my mother never learned how to use a computer or text on a phone! Every now and then I’d get a bizarrely worded, terrifying email from ostensibly my father, which he’d later explain she had dictated to him. (My poor, autistic dad who would just do anything to make the pain go away at least temporarily.) (Yes, I had quite the pair of parents, ha ha!)
I too was raised by a woman with this disorder. To say it affected me is an understatement. To say it informs me is the measure of my overcoming. Thank you for this.
I've been writing on Substack for about 15 months. In that time, I've blocked my mother twice (my first founding member, yes, love-bomb). I let her come back after the first time, but when she started acting out again––engaging with my readers in deep, invasive comments––and attempts to infantilize me, and never acknowledge the writing directly, I blocked her again and this time, it's sticking. It hurts my heart to not be able to share my success and joy with her...but it's not new, and it will NEVER change. She has a tremendous need to compete with me and it's so blatant that some of my readers reached out to me privately to express their dismay and concern. I need to learn to manage her better by taking good care of myself, and yes, employ the clearest boundaries. I'm not willing to walk away completely, so it comes down to me navigating the relationship for both of us. It's too easy to get lured back in.
The lure is what they want: that is the hook. If the lure is removed, there is then no chance of getting hooked. These are all classic NPD tactics which, in other circumstances, may involve: an abusive partner love-bombing, kindness of the sort that comes out of nowhere (but is always remunerative), begging and pleading, self-harm. I am on a book tour right now, and when my mother arrived for the holiday last weekend, I knew that she would demand XYZ not because she needed/wanted it, but because she could not tolerate that I was on book tour. Luckily, my mother does not know how to turn on her computer and she has no iPhone, although she demanded that we buy her one last weekend. We said No, and all hell broke loose. In hindsight, it was predictable, had I remembered this: that she, like yours, is wildly unwell.
Yes. Wildly unwell. Everything you said here is true in my experience as well. It took me until I was 62 to fully claim my voice and use it to tell my stories. And I will do that with compassion and respect. Beyond that, I'm not responsible for other people's feelings. Learning that piece has been the most valuable lesson of my life. Breaking the chains of codependence has given me freedom, and it's challenging at times not to be hooked, but I'm so much more aware of it now, the red flags, the behaviors. My mother DOES know how to use her phone and her computer. I'm almost positive that she's come up with an alias email that I'm not familiar with and is reading my essays. But she can't give herself away by commenting. And this isn't paranoia speaking. This is experience. Right?
Yes, that’s how I feel, too, like I’m navigating the relationship for both of us. Luckily I’m a very reluctant leader, lol. I used to look at my mother and not be surprised that she liked to say she was related to a famous Ecuadorian dictator (who was assassinated, mind you, kind of a jerk), and I’d tell myself I’m glad I have no power to abuse. I suppose watching her abuse her power over me as her child all my life made me much more careful about how I use my own powers in a relationship. Part of that is recognizing that you actually do have power. I sometimes think my mother’s most hurtful actions are attempts to feel powerful by a person who feels utterly powerless, like she can’t imagine that anything she says or does actually hurts me, and she’s fascinated when it does. Fascinated, perhaps a little horrified, amused, and ultimately, still unsatisfied. That’s why it’s a kindness to closely guard my boundaries.
Thank you, Elissa, for this eloquent piece. Your mother and my father were the same person. The same behaviors, phone calls multiple times a day, showing up at work, etc. I will never be ashamed to admit that I did the happiness dance the day he died and have worked in therapy for years trying to mitigate the damage. There is life after this. I promise. <3
Dr sam Vaknin is a world known psychologist with a special attention to NPD. He has a YouTube channel where he talks about all related topics. The one with a link below is about connectivity and interdependency of all the known Cluster B disorders:
I went no contact with my mother after she slapped me across the face for the last time when I was 53 - i didn’t see her again until a few months before her death after she had experienced a stroke - which must have excised something in her brain- and at the end she was definitely not the same person - I definitely believe that the stroke relieved her of whatever caused her BPD/NPD behaviors and I was able to come to peace (though still healing the chronic trauma response patterns) with her passing
Thank you for the clarity and courage to share.
My normally hotheaded father turned into a kitten after his last stroke, and the last month before he died, we held hands, gazed into each other’s eyes, and (in my perception) healed old wounds.
I love that for both of you - there was certainly the initiation of the healing process for me at the end with my mom
I had two in my life -- my dad, and the one who was exactly like my dad. As you said, hand in glove patterns. This piece is excellent, I'm saving it, and would only add something about manipulation. Those with NPD have powers of insight formed by -- and resulting in -- an incredible ability to become master manipulators.
Yes, my tormentor was always manipulating me.
My heart breaks for you.
Your gift is powerful: you helps others living with a narcissist feel seen...and perhaps help them survive. Thank you.
Spot on. . . Sigh.
My divorce lawyer looked me straight in the eye and calmly stated this truth: "You continue to be surprised by behavior that is remarkably consistent."
Perhaps that's where the 'healing fantasy' comes from. . . and fantasy it is. There is no changing them and they will never see you as a person. Walk away and don't look back if you can. Mine is 105 (almost) and I can't either, though I have with the others that I was in relationship with because, as you say, I spoke the language. Yet. . . here we are. Trying our best~~still.
Thank you, so validating. My 85 yr old father (yep, narcissist) now also has dementia, so is becoming someone new but underneath it remains all about him. I had no contact for 30 years but now his third wife has just divorced him, though I’ve had many many invitations to step in and manage his life I will not. None of this is easy.
I utterly agree: no contact. And there's the exercise right there, and the learning, yes? How do I keep no contact, how do I focus on my own peace of mind, how do I care for myself, protect myself, hold on to my life without the chaos and the pull to partake in a mad world... inner peace and a wholesome groundedness in self must be learned and practiced, over and over again. Boundaries are hard. The benefits, if we can accept them, are plentiful.
Once you really believe someone is a narcissist, they become small and pitiable no matter how much they rage. They are hollow and repetitive. The periods of seeming peace devolve into the same exact version of seeing what is wrong with them in you. The lying is constant and off the charts. My experience is that they can attach to you in a futile attempt to become more whole; I do think some intuit what a whole self could look like, and wish for it (without consciously admitting anything is wrong.) In this scenario, they can be the most perceptive, sensitive person you have ever met. Sadly for everyone involved, that doesn't last. There is a piece missing. Who can say why? It's not straightforward.
Indeed, it is not. It’s not been my experience that narcissists are particularly sensitive, although they are without question perceptive, which works to their advantage. If there is sensitivity, it results in their being acutely attuned to the Achilles heels of those on the receiving end of their narcissism. As I write this, I don’t know if this is sensitivity or perceptiveness, or if there is a gray area and it’s a little of both. All I know is that every narcissist I’ve known—clinically diagnosed—has been a master at getting what he or she needs to fill their bucket, and if they don’t, things get very dangerous personally, professionally, and in every other way.
some small but critical part of their soul is missing. I've looked at my mother for decades and seen that she is an assemblage of out of control emotions and then pasted on human behaviors - as though an alien or robot watched some 1920s-30s movies and ingested histrionics and theatrics and occasionally pastes them onto their surface. My Narc isn't a full and real human being *to herself*.
This rings so true. I remember when, in the first grade, I came home and my mother took me aside and said, in a voice and with gestures and facial expressions that made me think she’d been practicing them after watching it in a movie, that all my friends were laughing at me and that she was the only person I could trust because she was my mother and loved me. The weirdness of the fake “act” was striking, even to me at the age of 7 or 8. It was what made me realize I could never trust her again, the exact opposite of her message.
Once your eyes are opened to clinically certifiable narcissism, everything becomes clear. I finally, five years post-divorce, see all the patterns. I don’t react anymore. (The barrages still unsettle me and give me insomnia, but he doesn’t know this.) I recognized just last week the play that was coming, and fortified myself. (To my mom, I said something like, This is play number #17, blame, shame, disparage, and assassinate character when child support is requested. Then switch to DARVO—deny, accuse, reverse victim and offender.) Strings of emails befoul my inbox after every reasonable request for legally stipulated support. It’s exhausting.
The one thing I’m grateful for is that my mother never learned how to use a computer or text on a phone! Every now and then I’d get a bizarrely worded, terrifying email from ostensibly my father, which he’d later explain she had dictated to him. (My poor, autistic dad who would just do anything to make the pain go away at least temporarily.) (Yes, I had quite the pair of parents, ha ha!)
I hope you found solid footing in spite of it all
I too was raised by a woman with this disorder. To say it affected me is an understatement. To say it informs me is the measure of my overcoming. Thank you for this.
I've been writing on Substack for about 15 months. In that time, I've blocked my mother twice (my first founding member, yes, love-bomb). I let her come back after the first time, but when she started acting out again––engaging with my readers in deep, invasive comments––and attempts to infantilize me, and never acknowledge the writing directly, I blocked her again and this time, it's sticking. It hurts my heart to not be able to share my success and joy with her...but it's not new, and it will NEVER change. She has a tremendous need to compete with me and it's so blatant that some of my readers reached out to me privately to express their dismay and concern. I need to learn to manage her better by taking good care of myself, and yes, employ the clearest boundaries. I'm not willing to walk away completely, so it comes down to me navigating the relationship for both of us. It's too easy to get lured back in.
The lure is what they want: that is the hook. If the lure is removed, there is then no chance of getting hooked. These are all classic NPD tactics which, in other circumstances, may involve: an abusive partner love-bombing, kindness of the sort that comes out of nowhere (but is always remunerative), begging and pleading, self-harm. I am on a book tour right now, and when my mother arrived for the holiday last weekend, I knew that she would demand XYZ not because she needed/wanted it, but because she could not tolerate that I was on book tour. Luckily, my mother does not know how to turn on her computer and she has no iPhone, although she demanded that we buy her one last weekend. We said No, and all hell broke loose. In hindsight, it was predictable, had I remembered this: that she, like yours, is wildly unwell.
Yes. Wildly unwell. Everything you said here is true in my experience as well. It took me until I was 62 to fully claim my voice and use it to tell my stories. And I will do that with compassion and respect. Beyond that, I'm not responsible for other people's feelings. Learning that piece has been the most valuable lesson of my life. Breaking the chains of codependence has given me freedom, and it's challenging at times not to be hooked, but I'm so much more aware of it now, the red flags, the behaviors. My mother DOES know how to use her phone and her computer. I'm almost positive that she's come up with an alias email that I'm not familiar with and is reading my essays. But she can't give herself away by commenting. And this isn't paranoia speaking. This is experience. Right?
Yes, that’s how I feel, too, like I’m navigating the relationship for both of us. Luckily I’m a very reluctant leader, lol. I used to look at my mother and not be surprised that she liked to say she was related to a famous Ecuadorian dictator (who was assassinated, mind you, kind of a jerk), and I’d tell myself I’m glad I have no power to abuse. I suppose watching her abuse her power over me as her child all my life made me much more careful about how I use my own powers in a relationship. Part of that is recognizing that you actually do have power. I sometimes think my mother’s most hurtful actions are attempts to feel powerful by a person who feels utterly powerless, like she can’t imagine that anything she says or does actually hurts me, and she’s fascinated when it does. Fascinated, perhaps a little horrified, amused, and ultimately, still unsatisfied. That’s why it’s a kindness to closely guard my boundaries.
Thanks for sharing this, Carolita. Sending you my best, haven't seen you in so long! xo
Thank you for this post.
You describe narcissistic people like no one else. You have helped me cope tremendously! Thank you!
Thank you, Elissa, for this eloquent piece. Your mother and my father were the same person. The same behaviors, phone calls multiple times a day, showing up at work, etc. I will never be ashamed to admit that I did the happiness dance the day he died and have worked in therapy for years trying to mitigate the damage. There is life after this. I promise. <3
WHAT an elegant and informative piece of beautifully concise prose. So sorry about that stroke. Undeserved.
I just can’t get enough of your brilliant writing. I loved Motherland.
Dr sam Vaknin is a world known psychologist with a special attention to NPD. He has a YouTube channel where he talks about all related topics. The one with a link below is about connectivity and interdependency of all the known Cluster B disorders:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=j7zfgSzSy8o